Alara J Rogers goes into detail explaining why men can get so offended about being put in the “friendzone” by their female acquaintances. She breaks down the reason why some men don’t understand how to be friends with women. The post was in response to this stupid tweet from a guy that completely misunderstands what being a friend is and also whines that his friend won’t have sex with him. But as everyone with friends knows the whole point of being friends is to hang out and have fun while keeping each other company, and also to be there for each other when you have problems and issues to talk through. That’s what being a friend is. But anyway here’s her take on why some men see this differently and honestly it explains so much. The patriarchy strikes again:
Source: Alara J Rogers
(via: Geek Girls)
Yeah, but… men generally find women kinda boring to hang out with? Generally speaking, straight men don’t care about celebrity gossip, the latest version of American Gladiators (be it the singing one or the dancing one), what Sheila said to Tiffany at the office, fashion/shopping/window shopping, or any other number of mundane, superficial, vapid popular culture things so there’s no “having fun” for a man when it comes to hanging out with the vast majority of women. That means that a man “being friends” with a woman means he’s going to be her emotional tampon while he gets nothing in return. He’s just a dumping ground for her bullshit and no one wants to be in that position unless they value a potential reward (sex) so much that he will endure through this boring person’s whinging to try to get it because his dick is telling him to.
If a man finds a woman who isn’t boring to be with, he’s going to try to wife her. Besides, (assuming I am completely wrong and women are actually not as boring to men as I say) what future wife is going to be ok with a man who has girl friends and who goes to *those* friends for support when there’s problems in the relationship? Y’all need to stop deluding yourselves. Men don’t act like women for a reason and y’all need to stop pretending that you don’t contribute to it the ways that you do. You also need to stop pretending that you don’t spread men’s vulnerabilities because you can’t keep shit to yourselves. Being “friends” with women is the *worst* thing a man can do if he ever wants a romantic partner.
I have to agree with midnightharlequin. Men don’t have female friends to be just friends. Sure, I have 1 or possibly 2 female friends but they live several states away. My “emotional” support should I desire to express it, is my fiancee. A guy doesn’t want or desire to remain in the “friend” zone to hear about periods, go window shopping, wine tasting, or listen to soft rock unless he’s gay. No offense but it’s true. Most guys who start in the “friend” zone look to get something out of it. We are looking for the all inclusive pass to your pants. And if it is not possible, we move on. Next! Women hold the key that men want. Some would turn that around and say men hold what women want. Either way, the numbers don’t lie. Sex is the ultimate goal. But hey, this is my opinion, one man. Let’s here it from other guys
You sound pretty boring yourself tbh. My husband only has female friends because he doesn’t get along with men that like sports, muscle cars, gym talk, talking down to women, [insert equally as sexist hobbies as you gave women].
He’s extremely empathetic towards others, which is why he hates other men, because other men just aren’t. He can’t wrap his head around that need to pretend not to care.
We tend to go to craft events because he loves to paint and create things with his hands, we talk about a lot of technology and we both really enjoy bugs, collecting various gem stones/fossils, playing video games together, reading comics, drawing, we love taking care of the dead (I’m a funeral director and he’s a crematory operator) there’s a ton of pride in what we do, Space, science, medicine, history. You ever sat and talked in depth about the universe and it’s vast beauty before?
We share stories about our days equally. Sometimes it is about what s/he said to so-and-so but because it bothers us and we care about others. Neither of us like to watch others suffer socially and sometimes that’s how you make friends, by giving a shit and not being selfish. Is it taxing at times? Absolutely. Do I want to tell others to stfu I don’t want to hear your problems? Yes, that includes my husband. I’m 90% sure he gets the same way inside.
There’s more to life than getting your dick wet. Sorry society has trained you to be one track minded like that. It’s a real shame. You could be so much more.
Don’t be too surprised when your husband leaves you for another man.
Your masculinity is so fragile that you can’t handle even reading about a nontoxic man loving his wife without implying that head gay, as if gay men aren’t real men. The only fake men are men like you. And homophobes are trash. You’re trash and you need to reread this entire article again. They’re talking almost specifically about you.
Kay was correct out of everyone.
Her man actually sounds like me. Nothing better than getting so deep in a serious conversation with someone and then finding out its suddenly 4am.
Well the 4am part sucks, but being so focused in their conversation that time stops existing is such a glorious feeling.
Everything in her relationship sounds awesome.
in general men just suck. too hyper aggressive and utterly lacking empathy or any sort of emotional intelligence.
I have one contact that has been complaining for more than a month now about how he was “virgin shamed” and its tearing him apart that he cant get his dick wet.
I fail to see the why its so important to him. The only thing I care about is that I will try to make every interaction I have with someone to be a positive one. seeing a genuine smile on someone’s face or hearing real laughter from my jokes is the best feeling and its payment enough for the work I do to achieve that.
So I am a male. but I am not a “man” by the common definition. I am just a good person.
This explains why I have a lot of male friends, I’m not interested in any of those (deeply sexist stereotypical) things you’ve just claimed are the only things women care about. How about you stop being so blinkered and just see people as people? Put your brain in charge and not your dick, your life will be more interesting.
I concur with the guys in the comments. The “the patriarchy” bullshit doesn’t cut it. If a woman is genuinely interesting, like a guy tries to be, yes, be friends with her. But most women just seek & suck your desire and offer nothing truly in return: she shows you half her ass, and “expects you to listen”. – Her evolutionary advantage from this is clear: she wants to keep guys “warm” through desire, men’s simplest steering mechanism, so in case of “need”, she has “ressources”. Men, on the other hand, want to “spread their seed”. This is the fundamental conflict.
Not a gay dude here who gets super hot pussy, has loads of friends both male and female, and gets emotional support and gives it to both men and women. All my male social circle is like me. None of my girlfriends had a problem with me having female friends, either. The “men shouldn’t have female friends” argument is posited only by lazy, selfish, and weak men posing as strong.
Thank you. My husband is much the same. Another guy said he finds women boring because all we talk about is [insert sexist stereotypes]. I can guarantee we talk about way more. Some of my personal favorite topics are video games, dead things, foraging for plants, various bugs, Space, science, medicine, and the list goes on. There’s loads of women, probably more than most of these tools realize, that are deeper under the surface than they give them the chance to be. It’s sad to see so many men so narrow minded.
No, it is not men’s fault but women’s equally.
We sometimes channel our own trauma w men into unhealthy behaviors towards sons. We also want a strong masculine energy to make us feel safe so we send mixed signals about when and how much it is ok for a man to be vulnerable. So, no, we participate in this toxic bs too.
The 1950s called and they want you back.
Yay! So, you are saying that we should not bother with men because they are fake, shallow pieces of garbage whose “friendship” is essentially worthless because they are incapable of seeing us as human beings? Thanks for letting us know. Just remember this when you start calling us misandrists as we respond to your self-fulfilling prophecies.
And no – “notallmen (haha)” just your “midnightharlequin”, “Timothy,” “A Guy” types out there who see women as simply cum receptacles, The fact that you have such a lack of imagination regarding experiences and personalities outside your own only speaks to you being the ones who are boring. If you cannot seem to meet or attract smart and interesting women, the common denominator is you and there’s a reason or two or ten as to why they likely avoid you.
I had to respond to this one because you need a reality check. Men want women who are *more* than cum receptacles. Too many of you see yourselves that way and it sucks for men. I love hanging out with nerdy women and sporty women because they have *passions* that they pursue for themselves. Most women don’t. Find me a woman who is passionate about a hobby and I am *there*. However, since interesting women are so rare, it’s hard to not want to wife a woman who is. I don’t need lots of friends. Ideally, my partner in life would be my best friend, too, but I am *busy*. I have a living to earn and passions of my own to pursue. I’m not going to waste my time listening to an uninteresting woman talk about uninteresting things. Sorry, not sorry. The only exception might be one of those badass butch lesbians that’s practically like another guy. I’d be friends with her if she wants to come over for some beers and a game (watching or playing). Imagine that – shared interests help develop friendships. If women want more men friends, that’s a problem for women to figure out. Guys know what they want and most don’t want to go to Sunday brunch or some other mundane activity that isn’t interesting.
Then, you should have said that in the first place. There is still a lot wrong with it, but it is not nearly as asinine.
I find most people boring; I just don’t need to beat them about the head about it or imply they are generally inferior. Boring is not gender specific, nor is a lack of intelligence or insight.
There is literally nothing wrong with what I said. I have never gone to any woman and “beat them about the head about” how boring they are or how “they are generally inferior”. Never.
You *are* correct that boring is not gender specific and neither is lack of intelligence or insight.
What you types seem to fail to realize is that you are demanding that men no longer should have the agency to determine who they spend their time with and for what reasons. This is why men have caught on to the friend zone and are advising each other to not place *themselves* in it because being in the friend zone is not conducive to their goals or to their mental or emotional health.
You find most people boring. I find most people boring. This article is about men and women and the friend zone, not about women and women or men and men. Men are more likely to not find other men as boring because men are more likely to share interests to build friendships upon. Just as women are more likely to have things in common with women to build friendships upon. Men find women’s interests (like celebrity worship and kpop) boring and a waste of time just like women find men’s interests (like sports and video games) boring and a waste of time.
The difference is that you are telling men they are wrong for not wanting to be friends with women whereas no one tells women they are wrong for not wanting to be friends with men. It would feel pretty icky, if there was a social movement/phenomenon telling you that there is something wrong with you and that you need to change and spend more of your time and energy on the people you have decided are too boring to waste your time on, wouldn’t it? Maybe that’s what women who complain about this topic should realize.
If you don’t have male friends and want them, it’s not their problem. It’s your’s. And if you’re going to be SO AWESOME that a man *does* want to spend his precious time with you that he could be using doing literally anything else in the world to improve his own life and situation , then is it so surprising that, once you become part of what he finds valuable, he might want you to be even more involved? If you don’t, then why are you mad that he’s going to move on to find his happiness? When you don’t want to get closer, you are no longer part of the equation for his happiness.
Let’s thought experiment: Say a boy and a girl grow up as friends. Eventually boy says “hey, pursuing my happiness means I need sex and a closer relationship” and the girl doesn’t want that. Is it really so wrong for the boy to then pursue what he needs for his happiness and thus leaving the girl who said she wasn’t interested in being part of that? The boy now has to make a decision: Do I keep using my time on this person who is not part of my goal or do I instead use my time growing and pursuing what makes me happy?
We each only have so much time in this world. I don’t think it’s fair (arguably, I would say it’s “toxic”) that women demand that men waste their time on them instead of pursuing their own happiness. Like… sorry mans isn’t hanging out with you anymore and went off to pursue his dreams. Maybe… get a hobby or something instead of being mad that he no longer provides for you when he feels he could be spending his time better elsewhere? No matter how you slice it, him continuing to spend time with this girl is time not spent pursuing his own happiness and instead of women realizing that they have now become a millstone about his neck (or, in some cases, they are completely aware and continue to manipulate the man anyway) and are an obstacle and burden keeping him from pursuing his own happiness, you choose to complain about how he doesn’t enjoy taking on the burden of you anymore.
While men need to be better prepared for the inevitable rejection of their idealized happiness of having their best friend be their lover and companion as well, there is no training for this and so the first time it happens will always hurt and some men will have a harder time having their hopes and dreams thrown to the floor than others. They should not express anger and definitely not violence. However, they will be mourning the loss of their first choice of future happiness and will need time to figure out where to go from there.
I think women need to accept that men have the right to pursue their own happiness and that it’s easier for men and women to become friends with each other when both are older and have their primary needs for happiness already met.
midnightharlequin hit the nail on the head.
i will clarify and say this. if a man already has his sexual needs met from his partner, it is possible to maintain a friendship with another woman. However, there has to be a shared interest – a hobby, a passion. A man just cannot be an emotional punching bag for a woman without any other kind of return.
I have had several female “friends” in my 40+ year life, and some of them have grown to be romantic interests. I believe that to have a successful relationship, you have to have a strong element of friendship and attraction because a bond is a one-part connection and one-part cohesion. I am sure it is heartbreaking to think that a man has been your friend all along only to find out that they just wanted in your pants, but let me tell you that it’s just as equally heartbreaking to put yourself all into someone for them only to be “just not that into you”. I’m not talking about how I listened to your hours of whining and put up with your moodiness when the other women in the office were condescending and gossiping so you owe me sex. That’s disrespectful and objectifying. I’m talking about someone who cares enough to see you have had a terrible day so they try to cheer you up, they listen to your woes, be strong and allow you to lean, and cater to your “emotional” needs… they end up falling because they open themselves up to you. They don’t seek only sex, just to get into your pants, they want a LOT more. To make this explanation in a tongue and cheek context, it sounds a lot like “I want all the benefit without any of the work.”
Men, from an early age, are taught that emotions aren’t as important as logic because we are expected to provide, protect, preserve, and persevere. You can make the argument that this is an example of the “Patriarchy” hurting everyone, but if you remove it you remove the providers, protectors, and preservers. You have all women and no men. While we do this from an emotional place, and sometimes emotion is what drives us forward, we have to ignore fear, insecurity, and many others to persevere. So when we do allow emotions to surface (most generally to someone who is expressing emotions to us), it’s confusing to us to experience the concept of “I want the appetizer, but I’m not here for the main course.” I’ve never seen a better example of a situation where utter and completely frank communication is needed. Layout expectations up-front, if you just aren’t that into them, kill that hope before it gets out of control. This doesn’t make you a bitch, this makes you honest with yourself and with a would-be suitor. If they cannot handle this level of brutal honesty, then you did both of you a favor because they weren’t ready and you don’t deserve half-assed. A real man understands that he isn’t owed anything, so if you’re not interested in taking it to the next level, he will likely just walk away if he doesn’t have a fragile little beta ego. If you think this is selfish, you’re right but no less selfish than for you to expect them to stay in a situation that is slowly killing them because you want or need their attention. Let them go because it isn’t good for anyone. Let them move on and find someone interested in what they have to offer. Your girlfriends can give you sufficient emotional support after he’s gone.
I have too much experience with this. I think I should write a book about it. When most women put a man in the friendzone they are well aware that the man is interested in being more than friends. They use this to get the man to do things for them & be there for them while making the man feel like it’s leading towards something (sex or a relationship). If they are not attracted to the man then they are just using him & leading him on. If they are attracted to the man then they are keeping him on the back burner for a possible future relationship, after she’s done with all the losers. Most women dream about marrying a guy who is their best friend. If he’s willing to wait for her until she’s had sex with everyone else, she’ll eventually see that he’s the one. Or he’ll meet someone else & she’ll be stuck with a guy who treats her like shit.
You think that’s how your experiences have gone? It couldn’t possibly have been you constantly being thirsty and they have you tasks to do since you insisted on pretending to be their friend so you could thirst after them freely in their spaces. Or couldn’t possibly be that the only one who knew you weren’t gonna get any was you.
*gave
Kay was correct out of everyone.
Her man actually sounds like me. Nothing better than getting so deep in a serious conversation with someone and then finding out its suddenly 4am.
Well the 4am part sucks, but being so focused in their conversation that time stops existing is such a glorious feeling.
Everything in her relationship sounds awesome.
in general men just suck. too hyper aggressive and utterly lacking empathy or any sort of emotional intelligence.
I have one contact that has been complaining for more than a month now about how he was “virgin shamed” and its tearing him apart that he cant get his dick wet.
I fail to see the importance. The only thing I care about is that I will try to make every interaction I have with someone to be a positive one. seeing a genuine smile on someone’s face or hearing real laughter from my jokes is the best feeling and its payment enough for the work I do to achieve that.
So I am a male. but I am not a “man” by the common definition. I am just a good person.